Seawind for Floatfly

[ccosta]

Ed Goulart and I are both working on the Seawind. We are making them electric power, big ass motors and 100amp ESC's. I have a question for anyone but perhaps I should direct it to Bob Pacheco. The canopy is alittle flimsy on these particular models. The original great planes version has a plywood structure that holds it rigid over the fuse. The copy version we bought at Nitro or General Hobby is quite nice, but it has a real flimsy canopy structure. We thought making a foam form under it to add rigidity might work. Bob the expert in working with foam may have some suggestions. Maybe I'll bring it to the airport on Saturday. If anyone has ideas to solve this problem I would greatly appreciate them.
Carlos

[chistech]

I know how to solve the engine problem. Go Glow! LOL You electric guys kill me. If you start flying a lot you'll hate the constant waiting for the charge. Sorry, I've done both and I'll deal with a little clean up for the ease of just refueling and flying over and over again.

[Neons]

I have been busy and just looked at the thread and saw your question. I have to see what you are doing with pictures or in person. Can't really answer what I can't see. If you have a large wattage motor with the 100amp ESC it should fly very well. I think 5S or 6S batteries are in order for the high power. Tom has some nice large e-power planes and good equipment. When you are in large planes you need the right match.

[tomapowa]

Ted, stop picking on electrics! It's the future bud! (especially when fuel prices keep sky-rocketing... ug)
I normally never charge at the field since I bring enough batteries for a fun day of flying. And if I did have to charge them, using the right batteries and chargers, you can be charge a set of packs up in the time it takes you to fuel up and fly... IJS! For what it is worth, With my Hyperion charger (DUO 2) I can charge two 6s (58oomaH) packs in under a 1/2 hour... not too bad!

Carlos... great to see you finally on here!... I've experienced the same issue as you... you need to make the canopy removable to exchange batteries but the canopies of cheaper models are made flimsy and are made to glue/bolt on. For electric models like these, I often made a wooden structure that contains the canopy... such that it is easily removalble in one peice. You'll have to show me what you have and I can maybe help... have you the means to takes pics and post them here? If you need help, let me know... We'll have to plan a "plane night" next week some time (this week is a real busy work week unfort.).

Keep in touch... and again... great to see you pn here!

Tom

[Neons]

I have to agree with Tom. If you have gas and want to stay with it it is fine. Use the motors up. If you make a gradual change over to E-power that is fine also. It is a matter of experince that helps with the learning curve of E-power. Knocking E-power is unfortunatly a form of ignoramce to technology. I know people that adamant about ever owning or learning how to use a computer also. I agree it can be tough to learn the use but it has a lot of advantages to learn the digital language. Changes and progress comes very hard for some to accept. We need nitro people always around to show the younger generations of a lost art in model aircraft that will fade slowly away and become a memory for those visiting museums. I am slowly seeing a change over in models swinging to composite construction also. But I will not open that sore thought for the purists. Just keep on flying and enjoy yourself while you still can. We all get old some time and it will get harder and harder to continue enjoying the hobby.

[chistech]

I have both electrics and fuel. Whether you charge at home or at the field you still need to charge a lot of batteries. I pay $18 a gallon for fuel. 2 years ago I paid $17 so no big deal and it hasn't really gone up that much. The sound of the four stroke is still better than any electric motor or sound system hands down, no comparison. I've seen many crappy scale landings even at the big shows because the pilots have a hard time knowing if the prop is pulling or free wheeling with the electrics. Wiping up a little fuel off a airframe is not a big hassle to me. Most who've gone electric have done so because they hated the PIA glow motors they dealt with years ago or are people who just can't adjust a motor worth a damn and think all glow motors run lousy. Flight times are another issue. I can fly double the airtime with my fuel planes, no hassle of removing hatches, snaking wires, unplugging plugs that don't want to come apart, screwing with velco straps, arming, dis-arming, etc? I use 3800mah batteries for my airborne packs so I will never run out of power even if using a full gallon of fuel. I have a decent amount of money invested in my electrics and the only advantage I really make use of is the lack of sound allowing me to fly in places I can't fly fuel. I know the power to weight ratio is far better with the electrics but I don't need to do any crazy 3D stuff so no benefit for me. I can tell you I find myself flying less and talking more when I'm flying my electrics, (shorter flight times and battery charging even when having 8 batteries with me). When I'm flying just my fuel planes I only come down to fuel then I'm back up. My opinion, my experiences, my preferences, I DO own a computer, and I am aware of the benefits and pitfalls of electric. I do not see electrics as progress to the hobby more progress of an alternate power source, much like electric cars. Why the move to electric is, it's cheaper for Chinese companies to make small electric motors and batteries than it is for them to start up tooling for machining engines. More manufacturers, the price goes down. Composite airframes, sure, it's because people have become lazy and want things ready to go when they buy. The kit in general is going away. People don't have the ability to build a plastic model never mind to work with balsa anymore. Most people who buy an ARF can't even fix it when they crash so they throw it away. It is the people that drives the market, not necessarily the product. Cigarettes are bad yet people still smoke them so they drive the market. If you buy a machine and roll your own they are no way near as bad for you as the tobacco doesn't have the chemicals put in the manufactured cigarette but again, the people are lazy, and drive the use of the ready to use product. I will continue to be "old school" and build what I fly and power it with a combustion engine, just like the real one. Everyone else can just drink the CoolAid and enjoy they're "buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[chistech]

Hey, was talking with Steve at Toyz for Boyz and he told me that the chat among the hobby companies is not what you guys would think. The hobby companies are starting to see a switch back to combustion engine power on 40 and up size airframes from the electric "craze". It seems that the smaller stuff and some heli sizes are still going strong and gaining more ground but the larger stuff has fallen way off. Guess I'm not the only one.

[Neons]

Ted
I think Boys for Toys is just another opinion. See Tower and Hobby Lobby catolog covers and the first few pages in their catologs are swinging toward electrics. Nitro is being pushed back some pages. Sales must be better in E-power at this time, I guess. f I was buying stock it would not be in nitro. Many fliers do not have a clue about E-power. Anyway this thread is about Ed's and Carlos's Seawind project. I am here to help them. This thread and others should not be hijacked by steam blowing about Nitro and E-power or balsa vs. foam. I think it would be a good thing to give a blow-off thread to Tom for the ? vs. ? subject. No need that way to bash in ongoing threads. if you would like so everyone can get in on the bashing. How about that? It will guarantee to build a lot of animosity. Just like something we all need. It is better not to flame in here at all.

i will say I have and can go "Old School". I can build with the best of us. Problem is I have found a different field of modeling that many dare not venture. I guess that makes me a modern day model aviation pioner. Many just can't stand to see that. Why am I doing this type of building? Because I am not a Sheeple. I dare to be different in modeling advancements. Why are there not more of us out there? Where are the adventurists that want to do new things? If anyone wants to stay in the older times, Great. They should continue doing what they know best. Some nostalgic planes should be done that way. Ignition Buzzard Bombshells, Love them. They are beautiful. Balsa Mustamg great. E-powered Mustamg and all foam. Purists, unthinkable!

Ed an Carlos
Back to your thread. I have both canopies framed. I have it spruce framed and 1/4inch foam floors. I am almost ready to cut Carlos plastic canopy and glue it on. I will post some pictures maybe later. I may be done on this plane later tonight.

[Neons]

I was able to make the 2nd canopy frame today.What is done? Frames are 1/8" X 1/4" spruce. The angle ends are laminated ply and jigsawed to the arcs. Then I added the angles and floor in 1/4" Depron foam. Very rigid now. I have keyed the front edge to lock down the framed canopy to the hull. I have to cut 2 large holes for airflow in the rear angle. Then I am ready for the flat black floor. After that it will be glue up the plastic to the frame nd trim the edges. I have a change in plans tonight and have to go out so I will continue tomorrow. Provisions for magnets and a lift latch also have to go in.

In other notes. Ed needs magnets for his canopy. I do not have any. I also noticed the plywood frame for 2 servos under the canopy. . My recommendation is to place the rudder and elevator servos in these mounts and cable them to the rear. Dis regard the rear mounted servos. Why? Weight is a problem in the rear of the plane as you have the motor there.. The battery may not get the balancing CG correct. Better to mount as much as possible in front of the CG. For every ounce behind the CG you may have to add 2oz. in the nose to counter it. It will also mean that adding gear forward of the CG will make a lighter plane and a better handling model.

[ccosta]

Bob,
You are truly amazing!!!! It looks fantastic I can't thank you enough...........
How many magnets do you need for Ed's plane? I will bring them with me to the float field on Sunday if your there. I will be at my cottage all weekend starting 20 minutes from now.
Ed is amazed at your expertice. I do have one question. If we use the front to mount servos and I believe that is a good idea, How do we plug the hole thats precut in the fusalage?
Carlos